Kevin Schreck’s documentary, “Persistence of Vision” explores the odyssey of Richard Williams’ unfinished animation masterpiece, The Thief and the Cobbler. Riddled with production land-mines over the course of 3 decades and despite Williams’ notable career as a lead animator on films like “Who Framed Roger Rabbit,” his original vision was quashed. It survives only as studio recuts, of which Williams was no part, and in the archival footage and fan-based preservation Schreck has woven into his documentary. Schreck took a moment to discuss the film in anticipation of its U.S. Premiere at the 35th Starz Denver Film Festival.
The production of Richard Williams” “The Thief and the Cobbler” has such a mythology, at least among animators. What did you hope to bring to that conversation by dubbing your documentary “the untold story of the greatest animated film never made?”
That tagline was just something I thought up and it stuck to people. But that’s not the whole story of the documentary. I think my movie shows how elusive any masterpiece can be. This documentary is the first major work that attempts to tell the three-decade-long story of the making and destruction of this animation epic. It’s an incredible story, and one that has been pretty much forgotten in cinema history.
“Persistence of Vision” is a lovely title, and not only comments on Williams’ ambition, but it’s also a theory about afterimage in film and animation. If it’s not spoiling to the documentary itself, can you touch upon what the theory means to animation and to Williams?
It’s a bit like what you said. I won’t be able to summarize it nearly as well as Wikipedia, but the old theory of “persistence of vision” basically suggests that an afterimage is retained by the human eye for one twenty-fifth of a second, just the right amount of time for film running at 24 frames per second. This idea has been scientifically debunked, but it’s still a phrase that persists in film studies today. And like you said, it’s also a reference to Richard Williams and his quest to create the greatest animated film of all time — a dream that he toiled away on for nearly three decades. So the title works as a sort of double entendre.
Although he has distanced himself from any discussion of “The Thief and the Cobbler,” did you attempt to interview Richard Williams?
We did, several times. I can’t speak for him and how he must feel, exactly. I can only imagine that losing this labor of love of his was devastating.
Have you gotten any flack for nosing around the history of this production? Or were you meet with support?
Actually, the vast majority of people we contacted were very supportive of this project. I think they all felt that it was a story worth telling, and since most of what we know about the production history is based on mere anecdotes and memories, time was running out. The various animators and other artists that we interviewed were wonderfully cooperative and insightful, and they were all fascinating people. It was a real privilege to be able to speak with these genuine artists.
Reading about your last documentary “The World According to David Liebe Hart,” it’s about an entertainer trying for 30+ years to get his big break in Hollywood. You seem drawn to tragic heroes. While Richard Williams is an illustrious and accomplished artist, is there an element of tragedy you are drawn to in exploring this?
I’m not entirely sure why I gravitate towards these sorts of characters. I don’t think it’s as much the tragedy aspect of it as how I’m interested in very driven, very passionate personalities. But maybe I can relate to them, to an extent. Richard Williams is an artistic hero of mine, and although I’ll never be as good at anything as he was good at animation, I could almost see myself obsessing over a project for years like that. I think you have to have that capability in order to get any film even close to finished. In “The World According to David Liebe Hart,” there is an element of tragedy, but there’s also a sense that the story isn’t over yet, that it’s “to be continued…”. I think there’s a hint of that in “Persistence of Vision,” as well. Someone’s life doesn’t necessarily end due to one tragedy — at least not if they’re that driven and motivated. I guess it’s more bittersweet than entirely tragic.
After seeing attempts at re-releasing and a re-cobbled cut of the film, and now after you’ve immersed yourself in this investigation, do you think another restoration of Williams’ original vision is needed?
It would be extremely difficult to make an official restoration of the film at this point in time. They would need access to a tremendous amount of archival material and artwork, which has really been scattered and some of it has been lost forever. Garrett Gilchrist, who did an amazing job with his fan-edit, “The Recobbled Cut,” is updating that project for a “Mark 4” release. I think that’s the closest we’ll get to an official restoration, so definitely check it out. This documentary would not have been possible without the incredible amount of work that he did before.
